[h=2]Scoundrel Rogue build and tactics[/h]I am a relatively new level 60 rogue, so I haven't had a chance to truly experience the end game content yet, but I've done a fair share of dungeons/skirmishes/pvp along the way, and I thought I'd share my strategy/experience and get some feedback. First of all, I would like to make a disclaimer that the information below doesn't have much theorycraft behind it; the information is based on my own observations and play style. There are two reasons for posting this: -To provide Scoundrel option for people who are intrested in that tree -Get feedback from other players on any flaws in my logic/issues with end game I'll try to cover reasoning/performance for all the skills and feats for leveling, dungeoning and PvP. [HR][/HR] You can view my full build of powers/feats here: http://reyva.com/resources/neverwint...Id0xLuLRL6u09C The purpose of my build is two-fold. Consider these as main goals: Goal 1: Stay in stealth for as long as possible (ideally always) Goal 2: Maximize AP regen so Lurkerâ€™s Assault is used as often as possible (see Goal 1) Goal 3: Take advantage of damage boost bonuses in light of above Goal 4: Maximize At-Will damage, and use encounter powers to power (no pun intended) the goals above FEATS Heroic Tier I: Action Advantage 2/4/6/8/10% additional Action Point for dealing Combat Advantage damage (5/5) This is a no brainer, considering the goal for this build is to always remain in Stealth (i.e. have a permanent Combat Advantage) and to quicker regen AP. This feat is right in a sweet spot of bonuses for this build and is available immediately, so you can take advantage of it from early levels. Weapon Mastery 1/2/3% greater chance to land a critical hit. (2/3) This is a place for the 2 "throw-away" points, since there are no other useful selections at Tier II and 2% crit is, well, 2% crit. Tier II: Cunning Ambusher You deal 2/4/6% more damage fo 6 seconds after leaving Stealth (3/3) Now, as much as I'd love to stay in stealth forever, it's not really feasible with current game mechanics, so you will be out of stealth for a bit at points of the battle (later, I'll discuss how to make that transition time intentional), so it makes sense to maximize the damage during those "down times". On a side note, I am not quiet sure why would the game have 3/3 feats, instead of having all slots at 5, forcing the choice, similar to Paragon trees. Perhaps it'll be reworked in the future. Tier III: Twilight Adept 2/4/6/8/10% Stealth meter recharge when you dodge with a roll (5/5) Again, Tier III is not presenting you with many options for this build. 6% more to encounter powers is not that relevant for this build, and 3% deflection is, well, 3% deflection. Surprisingly, this feat is providing to be very useful for stealth meter recharge if you're skilled at dodging, it managed to help me stay stealth for longer than usual while moving away from dmg on boss fights multiple times. However, if you decide to go with more of an offensive encounter powers, other options will work just as well. Tier IV: Improved Cunning Sneak 4/8/12/16/20% longer-lasting Stealth meter (5/5) This was the toughest tier to make the selection, and probably where the most of theorycraft will come in. I opted out to go with longer stealth over At-will damage while un-targeted from Scoundrel Training and Strength bonus from Disciple of Strength because IMHO additional second in stealth not only gives you continuous Combat Advantage (with bonus damage), which may be equivalent to bonuses from other feats (again, this is where theorycraft comes in), but also gives you greater flexibility in moving/escaping/positioning/rotating skills in both PvE, and arguably more valuable, PvP. Paragon Underhanded Tactics Increase the effectiveness of Combat Advantage for you by 4/8/12/1/20% (5/5) Yes, please. Permanent Stealth = Permanent Combat Advantage = Permanent 20% of Combat Advantage damage Nimble Blade 35% chance to deal an additional 4/8/12/1/20% damage on a non critical strike (5/5) I decided to go with Nimble Blade over Press the Advantage because I use Impossible to Catch situationally, and not speccing heavy crit chance. The proc, despite 35% chance, is pretty **** good, especially withDuelistâ€™s Flurry. Fits well into Goal #4. Mocking Knave Sly Flourish and Cloud of Steel deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage. Additionally, Cloud of Steel's damage bonus per stack is increased by .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% (5/5) Increasing your "white" damage. See Goal #4. Action Rush Your encounter Powers have a 15% chance to grant 3/6/9/12/15% of your Action Point (5/5) This is another boost to AP generation (one of the few rare ones TR has). Some of the encounter powers I use have a pretty short cooldown, and given the number of times you actually use encounter powers during any given this proc becomes worth it. 15%/15% is a little low for being that deep in the Paragon tree, but AP regen comes so seldom for us that I'll take what I can. I opted out of taking Whirlwind Sneak, because I am not relying much on encounter damage, as you'll see below based on the recommended powers. Even if I was targeting more damage oriented encounter powers, this feat leaves much to be desired. Again, maybe it'll get reworked to become more viable. I am also taking 1 feat per each other Paragon tree. Dazzling Blades Your At-Wills powers have 3/6/9/12/15% chance to reduce cooldown on recharging Encounter powers by 1 second (5/5) Considering all the stealth generation encounter powers that I am using (and will be discussing lower), this is great by itself, but it also has an awesome synergy with Action Rush. It's a vicious circle of regeneration. Only good. Cunning Stalker While Stealthed, you build 4/8/12/1/20% more Action Point (5/5) So much needed consistent AP generation. Plus, you're always stealthed = you're always generating 20% more AP. [HR][/HR] So with feats set straight, let look at what powers work best to support the goals. Luckily, unlike feats, there are much more flexibility (both play style and situational) with powers, so builds can vary depending on preferences, while still working towards supporting the goals above. I, personally, run with probably 3 or 4 configurations, depending on farming, dungeoneering, or PvP. Below is a list of powers, my assessment of it's viability in different situations, and some comments. Note: PvE here means farming and questing. Dungeon means Dungeons, Skirmishes, and certain instance solo bosses. POWERS At Will [TABLE="class: cms_table_grid, width: 100%"] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]PvE[/TD] [TD]Dungeon[/TD] [TD]PvP[/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Sly Flourish[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]First and the trusties At-Will. Your bread and butter.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Cloud of Steel[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]Really nice for killing minions at distance and continuing damaging those pesky mages with AoE under them. Must have for PvP.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Duelistâ€™s Flurry[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]Slowest wind up, yet highest damage output. Monster damage on bosses from Stealth with Lurkerâ€™s Assault[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Gloaming Cut[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]I don't see any value in this skill, even considering this spec is all about staying in stealth. I am killing groups (multiple) of minions while in stealth as is, and you have to time it well on mobs with higher HP/defense, so I don't understand why would you occupy At-Will slop with a very, very situational skill that doesn't provide any other value.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Encounter [TABLE="class: cms_table_grid, width: 100%"] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]PVE[/TD] [TD]Dungeon[/TD] [TD]PvP[/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Dazing Strike[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]Daze is always good in PvE. Daze is always great in PvP. No major drawbacks, decent cooldown, generally solid damage/utility skill. Contends with others in PvE tho, which are more relevant to the spec.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Bait and Switch[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]Must have for PvE in this build. First, if cast right before Stealth expires, it regenerates Stealth bar to keep you in stealth much longer. Second, regenerates 3% AP when hit, so casting it in crowds and stealthing right after (see "first") will give you 1/2 of AP bar from the get go. Works only with dumb opponents in PvP.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Deft Strike[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]Love this skill, primarily because I am a big fan of gap closers. It, well, closes gap, and puts you behind opponent, allowing to avoid front cleaves. Unfortunately, it competes with other skills, so I had to change it out around level 40 for Shadow Strike. Fortunately, it's a "must have" in PvP.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Lashing Blade[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]Biggest encounter power damage. It's ... ok. Doesn't fit well into this build because of lack of supporting abilities and large cooldown, but for the fans of seeing big numbers every 20 seconds, use it in the optional slot (see below).[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Shadow Strike[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]It refreshes your stealth meter. Every 12 seconds, without Dazzling Blades. This skill was designed for this build.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Blitz[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]AoE. It's not much, but it's all we have. It's ok for half-clearing minions when farming, and does provide another gap-widener, so worth using as the only AoE.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Impact Shot[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]Not sure why this power exists. Cloud of Steel provides much better "charge" ability At-Will. Only reason I consider suggesting 1 for PvP is a in-stealth Stun. With this build it can provide 2-3 stuns in a row, but you would lose other stealth advantages.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Path of the Blade[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]Short-range, short-lived pseudo AoE with 25 second cooldown. No, thank you.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Wicked Reminder[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]Less damage than Lashing Blade but provides armor debuff. And the best part? It's on a 4 second cooldown, which fills out your "non-stealth" time, and plays extremely well with Action Rush.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Smoke Bomb[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]AoE daze and Slow. Nuff' said.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Impossible to Catch[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]Your "oh-sh&t" button. Sans PvP, I found it to be extremely useful on boss fights, where you can stand in place during the "big boom" in the area, allowing you to continue DPSing instead of spending time running back and forth.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Daily [TABLE="class: cms_table_grid, width: 100%"] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]PvE[/TD] [TD]Dungeon[/TD] [TD]PvP[/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Bloodbath[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]Visually funnest daily, representative of rogue. Very low damage, but makes you untargetable for a few seconds, while executing. Once you get later Dailies becomes more of a PvP power.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Lurker's Assault[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]Cornerstone of this build Fast stealth regeneration, 60% more damage. Instant lock for primary Daily.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Whirlwind of Blades[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]Mediocre AoE that we lack. Added bonus - extra power. Based on my observation, you get about 500-1000 power for the duration, which is decent, on top of AoE. Nice secondary Daily for farming/clearing rooms.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Courage Breaker[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]I haven't found this skill to be useful yet. Maybe once I see tanks being one-shotted I'll consider it.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Shocking Execution[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]Again, I haven't found any use for this skill yet. Lurker's Assault will provide more damage over duration than one shot, as hard as it may be, and provide regen to stealth for the same duration. This skill is worth being an encounter, then I'd consider it.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Class [TABLE="class: cms_table_grid, width: 100%"] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]PvE[/TD] [TD]Dungeon[/TD] [TD]PvP[/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Sneak Attack[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]Unless it is reinstated to do additional damage in stealth - it is beyond useless.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]First Strike[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]Yet another joke. I tend to think about these as placeholders, names will stay and powers will be reworked.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Tenacious Concealment[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]You stay in stealth even when damaged. See Goal #1. Situational if you're not taking damage.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Tactics[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]Goal #2. 15% is not much, but it's consistant, and adds up.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Infiltrator's Action[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]Don't understand a thought process behind this. The goal here is to stay in stealth. i.e. have combat advantage. And even without it, we are not going to tank.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Skillful Infiltrator[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]3% deflect and crit and 15% run speed warrants a mention. Good for that extra DPS, if you're goon on your goals.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Invisible Infiltrator[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]Even considering the build, we have plenty of stealth replenishes, and there are better options for Class skills available. UPDATE: thanks to solsol1337 for pointing out that currently first 10 stacks of Duelistâ€™s Flurry stay as replenished, so, with 15% dmg on the bleed, this may be significantly more valuable then I originally suspected.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [HR][/HR]Now, with all the recap out of the way, a couple of power sets that I use (which is probably is going to be an extraction of above, but read it as tldr Farming/Questing L-click: Sly Flourish R-click: Cloud of Steel Q: Bait and Switch E: Shadow Strike R: Blitz 1: Lurker's Assault 2: Whirlwind of Blades C1: Tactics C2: Tenacious Concealment/Skillful Infiltrator At-will are self explanatory. Generally, minions and farm mobs die quickly, so you want fast attacks to finish them off and move on. Q and E are there to remain in stealth while clearing groups of mobs. R is "AoE" either damage or control, depending on the group. Dailies and Class powers are self-explanatory, not many options there. Standard rotation: Cloud of Steel (optional) -> Blitz -> Lurker's Assault (optional)-> Stealth -> Bait and Switch (when stealth bar is almost empty) -> Shadow Strike (when stealth bar is almost empty), with Sly Flourish/Cloud of Steelin-stealth (depending on range). This will clear multiple packs, and with AP regen, you should be able to rinse and repeat at the end of the sequence. Starting from lvl 45-ish, it takes 1 pack on non-minion mobs to fully fill out my AP bar. With this sequence I can take out 2-3 packs, considering you are in stealth for about 18 seconds, without Lurker's Assault. Use it if you need that extra DPS boost. Dungeons/Bosses L-click: Sly Flourish/Cloud of Steel R-click: Duelistâ€™s Flurry/Cloud of Steel Q: Bait and Switch E: Shadow Strike R: Wicked Reminder/Impossible to Catch 1: Lurker's Assault 2: Whirlwind of Blades C1: Tactics C2: Tenacious Concealment/Skillful Infiltrator The setup is very similar to Farming, with Q and E being primary AP/Stealth generators, but this is whereDuelistâ€™s Flurry shines.* Ability to consistently unleash full combo from Lurker's Assault and Stealth dishes out insane single target damage. I alternate R based on the situation. UPDATE: In discussions with noroblad we discussed the viability of using Duelistâ€™s Flurry/Cloud of Steel as primaries vs Duelistâ€™s Flurry/Sly Flourish Standard rotation: Lurker's Assault (optional)-> Stealth -> Bait and Switch (when stealth bar is almost empty) -> Shadow Strike(when stealth bar is almost empty), with Duelistâ€™s Flurryin stealth. The rotation remains pretty much the same, however choice of R modifies the sequence a bit. If I go with Wicked Reminder, I use it every time I am out of stealth and before I go back in. Or right before I go out of stealth, which give 3 stacks automatically (if your timing is good). This is a group buff approach, since you're reducing the armor for everyone in the party, so your DPS may slip to #2 if you have a purely damage-oriented rogue or mage in a group. However, it does provide a solid boost to the whole group. I go with Impossible to Catch either when I know that there will be a lot of damage going on around me, or when I want to boost my own DPS. Casting it allowing you to stay in "red" area for the duration, attacking without interruption and relieving healers for the duration. While "damage" rogues will need to run in and out of range, I continue Duelistâ€™s Flurry bursts from Lurker's Assault and Stealth without wasting a second for movement. Generally, cooldown onImpossible to Catch short enough to let you sit through all the major damage/disables, and Tenacious Concealment helps remain in Stealth with all the minor damage taken. *if the boss is highly mobile/teleporting, your best primary is still Sly Flourish and Cloud of Steel should be secondary, because you won't be able to get advantage from the long winded Duelistâ€™s Flurry PvP L-click: Sly Flourish R-click: Cloud of Steel Q: Dazing Strike E: Deft Strike R: Smoke Bomb 1: Lurker's Assault 2: Bloodbath C1: Skillful Infiltrator C2: Tenacious Concealment/Tactics For PvP I am going for disables and gap closers. Both Dazing Strike and Smoke Bomb provide good in-stealth effects, and Deft Strike lets me close the distance to start hitting casters or catch up to runners and get in position to Daze/Stun. There is really no rotation for PvP, as anyone who played any game knows, just get close, disable, and hit hard. [HR][/HR] I think that's it. Hopefully it'll be useful to someone looking for similar play style with TR. Again, I welcome feedback/comments/corrections/theories. I will try to keep this updated as things change or as I learn better ways to utilize this spec.