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Big shout out to Loanwolf!

Termintor

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Big Shout out to loanwolf for leading the raid to freedrich for some trade pack turn ins and pvp fun!

I would like you to post in this thread and say what you learned and what do we need to do better as a guild.

This isn't a criticize loanwolf thread, but if you think there is something he could have done better please pm him or talk to him in game/mumble instead of posting in here about it.


Things we need to work on:

Listen to leader better

stick together better

Not as much chatter example: I was, I died, raging at leader, second guessing leader etc.

Stay Positive during raid! We can talk after but don't get down during



What did I learn:

Consumables in this game are CRAZY! like just basic ones help a lot! the pdef and magical defense ones are a must for pvp!

We have a lot of people that are awesome! A lot of community participation!





Also remember people you don't have to hold a leadership position to lead anything, so if you want to lead something just ask and more than likely you can :)
 

Cyndir

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It was great! Mad props to LW for organizing and leading this.

What I learned:

1. LikeTermy said, the buffs from food/potions/books are crazy good and well worth it to use/buy.

I'd like to have all our crafters up and ready to distribute these at a modest cost to players so that we can keep it in guild, make us crafters feel useful!

2. Also, sticking together. I found that as long as I was in the middle of the group I lived longer. Being a healer, I feel like they put a mark on me and target me first. On that note, I think it would be wise to mark the opposing groups healers if we see them.

Maybe also want to mark our healers if we can so ppl can either protect them or be near to get heals/buffs.

What could be improved?

1. Listening to the ppl leading or assistants so we can be a more effective force. Regardless who is leading, we need to show respect for them. We can share the "what happened/how to improve" afterwards.

2. We got split pretty well, but some of that was due to being rezzed at different Nui statues. If that happens, try to group up before leaving it's protection. Better to run in a group than solo.

3. Keeping the comms clear during battle. I'm not sure if it's necessary to alert everyone you're dead. Dunno if it matters if when the tank/ healers are down it's important enough to announce (new to the PvP side of group mechanics. I know Cen, living under that rock again *sigh)

4. If we're running trade packs and decide to go back for more, I think we should designate certain ppl to go back/stay so we can keep our presence known and not leave too few in one area; like on the island least night.


I had a lot of fun, so thx again LW for putting that together. Like Term said, anyone can put something together and lead it.

One thing I've noticed on the few runs I've done is that we can usually get in there and make the first turn in. After that I think our presence is known and it may not be worth going back for another pick up. I know we get something back for the pack turn in, but still would rather not give away everything if we can avoid it.

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Nehebkau

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Good times... Thanks LW. I learned I suck at pvp and need practice, need gear and weapons, and need to get to 50 lol. Communication is key and can use some improvement. That's all. I'm ready for more!!


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First run thru went very well. We all did a good job of sticking together and communication was good.

Second run I think we were overconfident for one thing and made some mistakes but can learn from it.

Once we had the island I think we should have had 4 people on separate clippers patrol each side a little ways out from the beach to give enough warning if ships were incoming. This alone would make a big difference and we might have been able to beat them if they were on separate ships by focusing on one at a time.

When things start heating up we need to STAY CALM, continue to follow the lead whether we agree with it or not and keep up the good communication. A lot more people were talking that second time and tempers were starting to flare.

One of the most important things I learned from leading raids for years now is NEVER throw around blame or tell people they should have done this or that when in the middle of the fight. The only thing it accomplishes is negative.....hurt feelings, defensiveness, argument, etc... and some muggy not come the next time. That can all be discussed afterward
and I think we should include a short meeting after each event to go over good and bad.

I'm also going to get with Thermo on a better way to organize mumble for those big events.
 

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I think part of the issue was that we weren't aggressive enough. When Sugoi landed on the island we had about even numbers, yet we decided to pull back to the center rather than rushing them. This gave them time to call in for backup from their own guild as well as Free Company. Judging by this, I think it would be good if in the future we focused on eliminating enemies as soon as they landed rather than waiting for them to come to us.

For future events like this I'd also recommend we alert allied/friendly guilds in advance that we'll be taking the island and that they're free to run packs in advance. The more they see us helping them out the more they'll be inclined to help us and inform us of their events.
 

Cynn

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Yes, I think it is always a good idea to try and include them if possible. Even if they don't come it can build on our alliance or friendship.
 

Cyndir

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I'd like to include them as well, but I think last night's run was just to see how we function as a guild by ourselves. At least that's the Answer I got when I asked the same question.

So plan some more and we can inv other guilds for the fun.

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Woolsey

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Thanks for doing this Loan. It was fun and pretty good for a first effort of something on this scale.
 

LoanWolf

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Thanks everyone for coming. I just typed up a recap but everyone here basicially said everything I was talking about. :heart:
 

EdgarAllanPop

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I have a sharply different view on keeping a presence on the island.

*IF we had 2 supporting guilds with us? Works well but alone we are small; we did and will be crushed every time.

I realize now (not when I initially read) that it was 'all about the pvp' and not the 'guilda stars.' That said; when we do run in we should of bring the Merchant ships the first run - not the second where 3 guilds knew/stuck around to mess with our small group of 35-40 people who stayed on the island.

Keeping people on the island creates a notion that we're doing trade runs. If we want to pvp; I suggest going there just to hang out. People will see us and assume "They're prepping for packs." When in reality we're just there for the kills.

When we want an emphasis on packs; we should get in and get out. Leaving only a handful (3-4 people) to sneak around and monitor the island as we prep a second/third run to the island. Seeing no one around will give no reason to come/stay on the island for other guilds. Why? Because 'holding the center' puts a sign out for bigger/stronger guilds that says "Hey come steal our shit please, and thank you."

Also; people need to stop assuming everything is fair game. Sarkk said 'grab my packs.' Great; grab Sarkk's pack. That doesn't mean go around and grab ANY pack. Some people are not prepping packs for anyone to take; have some consideration and ASK before you grab.

That aside; was fun.
 
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Cyndir

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Thx EAP. I agree about taking the packs in only on the first run. From what I've heard and participated in it is only the first run that gets a good turn in.

As far as the packs go, people need to be considerate and take the time to look at the crafter. I would hate to bring a great pack (aged larde for example) to turn in and then someone gets it. I only get the 20% from it, or if I wanted resource vs. gilda.

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Tiberion

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It should work one of two ways:

Making 2 runs: Everyone loads up, goes and turns in. Everyone but the stealth scouts go back to load again and return as a group. That way the half-strength group doesn't linger on the island and summon more enemies to come camp. They might stick around anyway for run #2, or they might break up and only leave a few so that the 2nd run can arrive in full force and get packs in again.

Going for PVP: Make the 1st run, then keep everyone there in an effort to hold the island and take packs from incoming people.


------------

Switching topics, I simply can't agree about people trying to declare packs on the staging area off-limits, or asking people to turn in for something specific, or one person trying to carry 6 packs to the island. Not if its a huge guild event like this where we have 60 people to coordinate, and not when other people took a bunch of packs up there free for anyone to use.

(Note: looking at the name on the pack on the ground isn't always accurate, it shows the last person to place it; on the open plots like that if someone picks up a pack to better arrange them, their name will show up - the only way to be sure is to put it on and check the tooltip of the pack in your pack/glider slot in the inventory slot.)

I mean, all of us would like to get several packs turned in and get those gildas or whatever, but worrying about "stealing packs" or trying to say stuff like "leave my packs alone please" is just a little crazy in those circumstances.

Better options would be to do something like Sarrk did: get some volunteers to carry packs for you and use your cart to turn them in. Optimally, plan this BEFORE the run so it doesn't need to be organized on the fly.

Or, plan your own raid, but specify ahead of time that the goal is for player X to turn in Y items and ask for people to help. You can still make it a bug raid because we need all the mass PVP practice we can get.
 

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I generally agree with all the good/bad/ugly posts above, so I won't reiterate.

What I will mention is this: Regarding the packs; Yes, we all want to get stuff turned in, but bear in mind that some families are working together to feed someone. From previous runs, Sarkk is working towards a merchant ship which is awesome and everyone who is able to help her carry packs is amazing. The Ozzbournes are also feeding a member gilda for a merchant ship. We will almost always have our family packs on Deathfeast's galleon and in specific carts. If we own the middle of Freed like we did for the first turn in, asking people to not turn those specific packs is not unreasonable. Once the shit show starts, of course, turn in any and all that you have on your back.
 

Tiberion

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It may not be unreasonable, but it adds to the confusion, complexity and stress of planning and executing a large guild-wide raid.

60 separate people need to:

Know which trade packs are off-limits on the pack farm
Know which ship(s) belongs to the group(s) trying to do their own thing
Know which slots on those ships are reserved and not to be loaded during the descent to the water (Remember we don't stand around on the shore, we get on and go)
Remember this after the sea-crossing and landing, and not grab any reserved packs (people who didn't were accused of actual stealing)
Know which of the half-dozen carts are also off-limits or reserved, and keep track of that in the midst of 60 people streaming to the turn-in.

And that is the best case scenario that zero hostiles are present. This is compounded when the directives are being given over mumble by non-raid leaders in the midst of other planning or even when we're actively moving things. "Leave my packs alone" isn't any more helpful than "There's an enemy over there"

Like I said, all of us would like to have the ability to use the raid as an opportunity to get a bunch of packs in. 3 of my family are close to big ships now, and we brought 23 packs to the farm. Most of them went undelivered though, as they were for anyone to use and other packs were chosen. That's okay though, we each took our one pack into Freed and that was sufficient.

It's a group raid; if the whole thing was filled with splinter groups trying to do their own thing, it would just be chaos. I just don't think its an appropriate expectation at a large scale guild function like this. Such an opportunity would need to be spread around, and I don't think that's likely to happen either.

Now if the Ozzbourns plan an event to raid the island to turn in packs for their goals, and they invite everyone along to help out, get more practice, or fill the rest of the ship and its planned out in advance then I have zero problem with it, and I'll show up every time to help out.


And this is in NO WAY a criticism of Loanwolf. He led the raid perfectly as far as I am concerned, despite having to contend with a lot of crosstalk including callouts about pack ownership and all of that.
 

Sylvara

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Fair enough Tib. It is confusing, I totally agree. We had 2 carts that we asked not be randomly grabbed. I don't think that's outrageous. I posted in raid chat probably twice to not take packs out of Mendien or Cen's cart. We don't plan a full guild run because it's being done within our family and we don't want to impose on the guild. EAP managed to get his merchant ship essentially on his own and if he can do that (amazing) we can too. My point was, the original post had indicated that it was a mass guild run for packs, so as a family we brought our own. What I don't agree with (and this is in no way directed to any individual) is saying, Okay, this is a guild run for packs, bring your stuff, but we're handing everything over to XXX person. That is my issue. It is a group raid, as you said, yet once we got there, it was presumed that everyone was giving Sarkk the packs to hand in. If that was going to be the case all along, we wouldn't have brought our packs. The original post indicated that if you were to be bringing your own packs (which we did) and are asking someone to carry for you (which we didn't, it was family only that carried our packs) to compensate them. It also states to not worry about feeding packs to someone (which happened because we owned mid).

I think additional clarification at the onset of the raid would be helpful here. We as a family were under the impression that we were "allowed" to bring our own packs. If that was not the case, then we would not have done so.
 

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Can I make a suggestion regarding the packs?
For the family trade packs, Why not name the Farm Cart something like OFFLIMITSDONTTAKE/"InsertFamilyName"FAMILYCART
This might help people know which ones NOT to take. Generally everything with no "off limits" tag or "Family Name" tag is free game for everyone.
 

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As someone who has never played a game like this before or been part of a raid or any sort of organized guild event (is it obvious? :joy:) - I thought that was fucking awesome! ..Not having anything to compare it to definitely helps, I'm sure hehhehe. This is the first thing I've been a part of where so many of us were working toward a common goal in the same area fighting and defending one another.

I don't have much to add, because of how inexperienced I am.. so I'll keep this short.

I died more times than I care to figure out or count, but I got lots of honor and shot down lots of reds. And I even got to hand in a pack ^^ ... To me I feel like our raid was everything I expected, and yea we could've done better but I feel like realizing that alone is a GREAT thing because we can at least see our weaknesses now and do better next time. So long as everyone continues to participate in things like this we can keep improving and become a stronger force.

Love my guild :heart:
 

Tiberion

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Thats a pretty good idea Pein.

Sylvara: I agree that any directives regarding packs needs to be made well up front, especially if its feeding someone. I don't think it was expected for everyone to feed Sarrk though, she just asked if anyone wanted to do it, and a few did (15ish of 60 packs) - I don't find that onerous though it will still be better if done before hand.

Of course, this raid DID have a directive about packs stated beforehand - that the packs don't matter, we were supposed to be okay with losing them as they were secondary to the PVP. So pack gymnastics were a little out of place, but it went well enough anyway.
 

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I know I am new to Tenacious but I would like to ad in my 2 cents.

I thought the leadership was great. The organization at the start was well thought out and we had a solid plan in place.
I do not think we had the numbers to do packs and own the island/pvp. If we had of chosen one or the other we would have lasted a lot longer and the event would not have been over so quick.

Here are my observations and or suggestions.

1: Make it a pack run OR a PvP run. Taking packs with us on the initial launch is a great idea. Tons got turned in and then everybody split and we had a group at each entrance to the island and we were ready to battle. But then we decided to send people back for more packs (I was one of the people that went back so I am not pointing fingers). I think doing this was a mistake. We really needed all players on the island.

2: Tempers and Communication: The people that went back for the packs waited until we were given the all clear to make the second landing. There was a clear call that we were okay to land. But then once on the beach and things started to go south for us there were accusations and questions as to why the pack group landed. People were getting narky on voice and it just really was not needed. I was very surprised by this as the entire feeling of the raid and the initial point was for us to have fun, which we did.

3: DONT TOUCH MY PACK: I created about 8 - 10 packs and left them on the public farm. These were created under the belief that they were fair game and anyone would be carrying them. Once they touched that soil on the guild farm they weren't my packs anymore they were the guilds. I put them there so we had enough packs no matter what outcome we had. This next bit might sound a bit harsh but if you want to bring lots of packs and don't want anyone else handing them in or moving them then do not do it on 39 other peoples time. We had leaders calling for people to get the packs off the beach and to the NUI then people who owned said packs shouting and swearing saying bring my pack back. In the midst of all the chaos players who are just trying to help and doing what leaders are calling for should not have to worry about picking up the wrong pack or being sworn at. Quite frankly it was just immature.

If people have tons of packs they want to transport then another time and raid should be arranged. I would be more than happy to go and protect your packs so you can get your gildas/mats/gold. And judging by what I have seen in the guild so far there would be a ton of others putting there hand up to help too.

Anyway, that is my observations and suggestions from the raid. I had a blast and would love to do it again. The more we do it the better we will get. Props to the leaders and those who organised it. Things may have not gone our way by the end but I thought the event was epic.
 

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Can I make a suggestion regarding the packs?
For the family trade packs, Why not name the Farm Cart something like OFFLIMITSDONTTAKE/"InsertFamilyName"FAMILYCART
This might help people know which ones NOT to take. Generally everything with no "off limits" tag or "Family Name" tag is free game for everyone.
The raid went well IMO. Thank you @LoanWolf for doing the majority of the work setting it up.

I do like @Pein idea there about naming the carts to help with sorting out packs. I was glad to see us use the staging property. One last thing, just because people put their packs up there does not mean they no longer own them or decide what they are used for. They are still YOUR packs until you donate them to some other cause. I don't want any confusion on that because I don't want people to be reluctant to use the staging farms.

A lot of people donated packs to @Sarkk and that is great.

@Sylvara and her family had made packs for another purpose and that also is great.

The staging properties in NW Solzreed are working as intended :) As a matter of fact we should probably load them up again and do something toward the middle of the week.
 

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I showed up late and missed the first wave of Packs going in. I did listen in a mumble about half way through (when I got on) and things sounded like it was going good. @Termintor then came back and met me on main-land and we headed out together. By that time it seemed like the reds had called for more re-enforcements and slowly began to push us back. By the time I really got into the fight we were spread out (from slowly getting picked off and rezzing) and getting run over by larger groups of reds. I say this only so you understand where my "Sustain" and "Improves" come from.
Sustains:
  • Running this period! I love the posts from guildies that have been saying they haven't PVP'd much (at all) before but loved it and had a blast. That being said, the biggest way to get better at PVP is simply to do it. Gear and buff only make it a bit easier to learn. Even avid PVP'ers need to run groups to get better because everyone a little different. When you know what your guildie or a leader is going to do or say before they do it, then we'll be much better as a guild at mass PVP like this.
  • Having a Raid leader control things like @LoanWolf did. From everything I heard and saw he gave very good advice and moved the raid in the direction it needed to go. Great job! Future Raid leaders need to try and learn from this run.
  • Communication/crosstalk. Though I agree with what @Termintor and @Cynn said about "less talk and more listen" as an entire raid, much of the cross talk between @LoanWolf and some of the others was still good and needed. We had 50 people all trying to be on the same page and "Good" communication is needed. We just need to hone what is "Good" and what is not. This will come in time.
Improves:
  • Attitude (be assertive). What I mean is, the BIGGEST thing that will help you succeed in PVP is your attitude. Be assertive and engage the enemy. By the time I got out there and we were split up, when we saw the reds we waited to engage them like we wanted a better situation. MAKE the situation better; don't wait for it to get better. I will try and elaborate more on this in another post.
  • Work on our rolls in a group. I think we may need to also try and balance the number of tanks/healers/DPS but that was just from a small snap-shot I had, and probably another discussion. Regardless, when we're in a raid like this everyone should make sure they know what roll to play and stay in that roll (i.e. Tanks out in front/healers just healing/DPS Focus fire)
  • Calling out targets: I don't know (don't think) this game has an "assist" mechanic in it but we need to come up with a system to help us focus fire. Maybe have a marker (star) "hotkey'd" and we just keep remarking new targets as we kill them. Tell everyone to kill the star.
And to complete the Compliment Sandwich; @LoanWolf you really "knocked it out of the park" last week with the Rep from Cincinnati.


See you all on the battlefield

Boanz

p.s. where do I find a cool signature for this game?
 

sweetrad

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So as anyone whos ever played with me, they already I SUCK at pvp, but thats not to say i wasnt useful. after the 2nd run and we were all camped at the nui, some pirates managed to get a hold of my cart, destroy it and get my packs, but pirates are trolls, so they decided to just dance with me at the nui instead of joining the fight at the center, so in turn i distracted 3-4 reds who were good at pvp, as well as get 1 of my packs back because and I quote " sweet you're boring me, take your pack im gonna go kill ppl"
 
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